The Lucy Lutheran and Whitney Witness Dialogues
Join Lucy Lutheran and Whitney Witness as they discuss what it means to live a scripturally sound life and to be a part of our Church as God intended.
God does not require blind faith. Jesus does not walk beside us because we don't ask questions. He is the way, the truth and the light, and as true believers, we are asked to continually search for God in everything we do and to be prepared to defend Him and our faith with authentic understanding and truth. This is how Jesus walked, and is at the core of our purpose here on Earth. It's easy to have faith, more difficult to diversify the conversation on belief without ostracizing the very people seeking to share and find footing in that faith. This discussion poses an important conversation about the Church as Jesus intended it to be versus false teachings guiding His sheep.
The Question of Authority
Part One
It’s a sunny Saturday morning when Whitney Witness knocks on Lucy Lutherans door. Today, Whitney is with her friend Karen, spreading the word of Jehovahs Organization. She is well accustomed to resistance during her door to door missionary work, and regularly ascertains and defends her church without question to her faith. That is, until she knocked on Lucy's door…
Lucy answers the door to see two nicely dressed women standing on her porch.
“Good morning,” the younger one said. “My name’s Whitney, and this is Karen. We are visiting neighbors to share some thoughts from the Bible about finding hope in troubled times.”
Lucy: (smiles back) “Hope is something we could all use about now…I am Lucy. Y’all areJehovah’s Witnesses, right?”
Whitney: “That is right. We find great encouragement in God’s promises, especially the one in Revelation 21, where God will wipe away every tear.”
Lucy: “Oh I love that one! Ya know, I really admire your willingness to go out and talk with
people about your faith. That takes some real courage.”
Whitney: (face brightening) “Thank you. We love helping people learn about Jehovah and the truth of His Kingdom.”
Lucy: (pauses for a moment, then says gently) “Can I ask you something? Does the Watchtower Society encourage people to test what it teaches…you know, to compare its doctrines carefully with Scripture in order to see whether or not they hold up?”
Whitney: (tilting her head) “Well, we certainly study the Bible carefully. The publications of the Watchtower help us understand what it really teaches.”
Lucy: “I see, The reason I ask is that, in my reading, the apostle Paul commands believers to test every teaching. Do you have your Bible with you?”
Whitney: “Of course.” (She holds up her New World Translation.)
Lucy: “Would you look up 1 Thessalonians 5:21?”
Whitney: (flips through some pages and reads aloud,) “Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine.”
Lucy: “Yes. Other translations say, ‘Test everything; hold fast what is good.’ Paul was writing to the Thessalonian Christians…people who already believed the truth. Yet…he still told them to test what they were taught. That tells me God never asks us to accept any teaching just because an organization says so.”
Whitney: (proceeds cautiously) “We do test things; we test whether they come from Jehovah’s organization or not.”
Lucy: (smiles) “That’s interesting, because in Acts 17:11 the Bereans were commended… not for testing things by an organization, but for testing them by the Scriptures themselves. Would you read that one too?”
Whitney: (flipped the pages) “Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica,
for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.”
Lucy: “Exactly. Paul did not rebuke them for questioning what he taught even though he was an apostle. He praised them for checking everything against Scripture. That is how they could know the difference between truth and error.
Whitney: (looks at her friend, that back at Lucy) “We agree that Scripture is important,” but Jehovah uses His organization to help us understand it properly.”
Lucy: (nodding sympathetically) “That is what I used to think about my own church years ago…well, my former church, anyway…that our tradition could not be mistaken. But when I read passages like these, I realized God does not give infallibility to any human group, no matter how close I may have felt to the Lord at the time. I think that when we assume that a single organization can interpret Scripture, we stop testing what it actually says.”
Whitney: (shifting uncomfortably) “But the Watchtower helps us avoid misunderstanding. Without it, people come up with thousands of conflicting interpretations.”
Lucy: “I understand that concern, but unity is not real if it is built on an assumption that one authority cannot be questioned. Real unity comes from everyone submitting to the same unchanging Word of God. (pauses and continues) Whitney, could you turn to 2 Corinthians 13:5? Let us read that one together.”
Whitney: “Keep testing whether you are in the faith; keep proving what you yourselves are.”
Lucy: “That’s another invitation from God to examine ourselves in light of His Word, not to see if we’re in the right organization, but whether we’re truly in the faith, which is…trusting in the real Jesus as he revealed Himself.”
Whitney: “We do test ourselves; we try to make sure we’re obedient to Jehovah.”
Lucy: “That is good, but the question this verse asks is not whether we are obedient enough, it is whether or not we are actually in the faith. The object of our faith determines everything.” Whitney, may I ask you something directly?”
Whitney: (nodding slowly) “Sure.”
Lucy: “Are you willing to examine the claims of the Watchtower Society in light of Scripture alone? And if you were to find out that some of its teachings contradict Scripture, what would you do?”
Whitney opened her mouth, then closed it again. Her eyes flickered with uncertainty.
Whitney: “That’s… a hard question, I’d have to think about it.”
Lucy: (smiles) “That is fair enough. It is a question worth thinking about. Paul wanted every believer to test everything, not to destroy faith, but to make sure that our faith rests in and on Christ Himself, as He revealed Himself in His word, and not on any human authority. If the Bible is truly God’s Word, then it can stand up to every test. Whitney, you said you wanted to be obedient to God, right?”
Whitney snapped back: “To Jehovah, yes!”
Lucy: “Right, I apologize for not using your term. Whitney, what if the scriptures actually reveal that rather than being obedient to Him you are actively fighting against Him? Wouldn’t you want to know that?”
Whitney: (looking down at her Bible, turning it over in her hands) “Maybe… maybe I could come back, and we could look at some verses together?”
Lucy: “I would like that very much, bring your New World Translation again. We will open it together and see what it says.”
Whitney: (smiles faintly) “Alright. Maybe next week.”
As she and Karen walked down the sidewalk, Lucy could hear Karen advising Whitney not to go back. Lucy whispered a short prayer that God would begin to open Whitney’s heart, not through clever arguments and worldly philosophies, but through the power of His living Word.
The Question of 1800 Years
Part Two
This is Lucy Lutheran and Whitney Witness’ second meeting.
Lucy: “Hello again, Whitney.”
Whitney smiled back, though a bit nervously.
Whitney: “Hi, Lucy. I brought my Bible, just like you said. I’ve been thinking about what we talked about…ya know…testing teachings by Scripture & all.”
Lucy: (smiling warmly) “I’m so glad to hear that, Come on in if you’d like. I made some coffee.”
Whitney hesitated for just a moment, then nodded.
Whitney: “Alright. Thank you.”
They sat at the kitchen table, Bibles between them.
Lucy: “So, last time we talked about how Paul, in 1st Thessalonians 5:21 tells us to test everything. And how the Bereans were called noble because they searched the Scriptures daily to see if Paul’s words were true. I appreciated that you were open to that conversation.”
Whitney: (smiles faintly) “It made me think. I even mentioned it at our congregation meeting. We talked about how important it is to be loyal to Jehovah’s organization.”
Lucy: “Loyalty can be a good thing…if it’s loyalty to the truth. But may I ask you something again? When you say ‘Jehovah’s organization,’ are you saying the Watchtower Society speaks with God’s authority?”
Whitney: “Well, Jehovah uses the Faithful and Discreet Slave to provide spiritual food in our time. So yes, the organization is how Jehovah directs His people.”
Lucy: (looking very thoughtful) “I see, so according to the Watchtower, for almost 1,900 years after the apostles died, there wasn’t a faithful channel of truth on earth, until the late 1800s, when the Watchtower Society began?”
Whitney: (nodding slowly.) “That’s what we’re taught, yes. The truth was lost after the apostles, and Jehovah restored it through His organization.”
Lucy: “Whitney, can I ask you to think through that claim for a moment? Do you realize what that really means? For 18 centuries, millions of professing believers all over the world who loved the Lord Jesus, whose lives were changed, who translated Scripture, who suffered, and even died for the Gospel…well…all of them were deceived, according to the Watchtower. Are you comfortable with that idea?”
Whitney: (frowning slightly) “I’ve never thought about it that way. I guess I always assumed Jehovah waited until people were ready.”
Lucy: “But Scripture doesn’t say that Jehovah would leave His church without truth for 1,800 years. In fact, Jesus said the exact opposite.” (turning to Matthew 16:18 and sliding her Bible across the table.) Would you read this, Whitney?”
Whitney: “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.”
Lucy: “Right, so Jesus promised that His Church would never be overcome. He’s saying that the defenses of Hades itself couldn’t stand against the advancement of the Gospel. There is no hint that it would disappear for eighteen centuries until a publishing society in New York brought it back. Either Christ kept His promise, or He didn’t.”
Whitney: “But people fell into false teachings. The churches became corrupt.”
Lucy: (nodding in agreement) “Yes, churches have always had false teachers, even in the first century. But there’s also always been faithful believers clinging to the Word of God. Christ’s Church may have been small at times, but it was never gone. Otherwise, His promise would have failed. Let me ask another question. If the Watchtower claims to be God’s channel, shouldn’t it be consistent in its teaching?”
Whitney: “Well, yeah.”
Lucy: “Then why has it changed its core doctrines so many times? Their own publications have predicted several specific years for Armageddon; 1914, 1925, and even as recent as 1975, and then later said those were just misunderstandings. They once said Jesus returned invisibly in 1874, then changed it to 1914. And they’ve reversed their teaching on who the ‘generation’ of Matthew 24:34 refers to, several times.”
Whitney: (nervously looking down) “We believe the light gets brighter, like Proverbs 4:18 says.”
Lucy: “Indeed it does. But that passage is talking about the righteous walking in holiness, not doctrines changing. When a prophet claims divine authority, Deuteronomy 18 says the test is whether his words come true. If they don’t, the message didn’t come from God. Whitney, the Watchtower has made false predictions in God’s name. That should make any honest follower pause.”
(There was a pause that seemed like an eternity. Whitney was just staring at her Bible, tracing the edge of the page with her finger.)
Lucy’s tone was gentle, never pressing…as she continued…
Lucy: “Whitney, when I first realized my own church had traditions that didn’t line up with Scripture, it shook me deeply. Soo deeply! That was my entire world. It was all I knew.
But eventually it was freeing, because truth isn’t afraid of scrutiny or examination. Jesus Himself tells us in Matthew 4: 4 and 7: 15-16, to test everything by His Word.”
She reached for her Bible again.
Lucy: “Remember 2nd Corinthians 13:5, ‘Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith?’ That’s not a command to test our obedience to an organization, it’s to see whether we’re truly trusting in the same Christ who is revealed in Scripture.”
Whitney: (Looked up quickly) “I want to be sure I belong to Jehovah.”
Lucy: “And that’s a good desire, but belonging to Jehovah comes through belonging to Jesus, because Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. If the Watchtower teaches a Christ different from the Jesus revealed to us in Scripture…then it isn’t leading people to Jehovah at all.”
(There was another long silence. Finally Whitney leaned in to speak)
Whitney: “Maybe next time we could talk about who Jesus really is.”
Lucy: “I’d like that very much.”
As Whitney left, Lucy prayed quietly again, that the same Word which calls, enlightens, and sanctifies…would begin its quiet work in Whitney’s heart.
"Faith, Feelings, and Lent"
Lucy Lutheran: [knocking, then smiling gently] Francesca, I am really glad you let me come by. I have missed seeing you around the church!
Francesca Freedom: I know. I have missed... well, parts of it. I just have not had the energy to explain.
Lucy: You do not have to explain everything. I just wanted to check on you. You were always so...present; Bible study, worship, serving. And lately... you have just been gone.
Francesca: [sighs) I know. I wish I could say that I had a dramatic reason. I just do not feel it anymore. I would love to have that feeling back, the joy, the fire. But life is really heavy right now. Work, family stuff, my own mess. When Sunday comes, I just cannot muster the motivation. I just do not feel like it.
Lucy: That makes sense, Weariness has a way of dulling even the best desires.
Francesca: Exactly. And honestly, isolating feels easier. Or doing other things, like resting, or reading, or being alone. They are not bad things. But church? Accountabil-ity? I just feel drained by it all. And... what is the big deal anyway? It is not like I can lose my salvation.
Lucy: [Choosing her words carefully) Francesca, I am really glad you said that out
loud. Because that tells me where the danger actually is. Francesca: Danger? [Giggles] That sounds so dramatic.
Lucy: I do not mean to be dramatic. I mean it is the kind of danger that is quiet and subtle. The kind that does not announce itself. Let me start here: you are right about one thing. We do not believe that we earn or maintain our salvation by our feelings or by our church attendance. Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, by Christ alone. Augsburg Confession IV could not be clearer.
Francesca: Right. That is what I mean.
Lucy: But notice what you said earlier, you are waiting to feel your way back. Scrip-ture never tells us to be led by our feelings. Jeremiah even warns us that, "The heart is deceitful above all things" (Jer. 17:9). Feelings make terrible lords.
Francesca: So, you are saying I should just force myself and be miserable? I thought God wanted us to be happy!
Lucy: I am saying sometimes faith looks like duty. Luther himself said that the Chris-tian life often feels like clinging with fingernails. Love for God is not always fuzzy. Sometimes it is stubborn. Those are often the hurdles that help us grow. And I'll be honest with you, Fran, when I go through those periods where I feel too weak, or too tired, or like something else is more pressing, I say this to myself: "If I had to go to church to pick up my paycheck, I'd go no matter what. And If I had to go to pick up lottery winnings, I would probably even be early!" Now of course church is not trans-actional like that, but it reminds me that Jesus is giving me something more valuable there than I would ever dare to feel entitled to.
Francesca: Wow, Lucy, that sounds...exhausting.
Lucy: It can be. But that's why God never asked you to sustain your faith by your feelings. He gives you ex-ternal gifts, the preached Word, absolution, the Supper. The means of grace that the pastor is always going on about. They work whether you feel them or not. And God wants you to be holy... your happiness, or at least your peace, will flow from the knowledge of the love that Jesus has for you, and his commitment to your transformation.
Francesca: I know that... at least in theory
Lucy: This is not theory. This is life support. When you step away from the means of grace, you are not just "taking a break." You are stepping away from the very thing that keeps faith alive. Romans 10 says, "Faith comes by hearing." Not "by remembering how we used to feel." Feelings change drastically with what we had (or did not have) for breakfast, after all. Francesca: But you said I cannot lose my salvation.
Lucy: I said you were right that we do not earn or maintain it. But Scripture is equally clear that salvation can be forfeited; not by our weakness, but by persistent unbelief and despising (or neglecting) the gifts God gives.
Francesca: That sounds like works again.
Lucy: No. It is about refusing grace, not failing at obedience. Hebrews warns against "neglecting so great a salvation" (Heb. 2:3). Jesus Himself says, "Abide in Me... if anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch that withers" (Jn 15). The Formula of Concord says believers can "fall from faith and grace"...
not accidentally, but by resisting the Spirit (FC SD XI). Francesca: I do not feel like I am resisting. I am just tired.
Lucy: Tiredness is not a danger. Isolation is. When tiredness says, "I need help," faith is still speaking. When tiredness says, "I don't need the Body anymore," that's when unbelief begins to whisper.
Francesca: Hmmm, I did not think of it that way.
Lucy: The devil loves respectable reasons to stay away. "Self-care." "Rest." "I'll come back when I'm ready." But sheep do not heal by wandering. They heal by staying close to the Shepherd, even when they are limping. Besides, the church is supposed to be our rest!
Francesca: What if I come back and feel nothing?
Lucy: Then Christ still comes to you. The Supper is still His body and blood for you. Absolution still declares forgiveness to you. Your feelings do not activate the Gospel. Christ does.
Francesca: And if I do not come?
Lucy: Then you are training your heart to live without Him, and that's not neutral ground. That is why I came today. Not to scold you, but to call you back before distance becomes denial.
Francesca: [tears welling] I did not realize how far I had drifted.
Lucy: Drifting is exactly how it happens. So, let us not wait for feelings. Come because Christ calls, and be-cause you need Him, and because even weak faith clings to a strong Savior. Oh...and Lent is almost here! It is the perfect season to contemplate overcoming temptation and returning to the Lord and all that!
Francesca: Will you pick me up early on Sunday so we can hit Starbucks on the way?
Lucy: I would not miss it for the world.
"Curbs, Mirrors, Guides...and the Character of God!"
The coffee shop was still loud with the after-church crowd.
Lucy and Catie sat at a café' table in the corner. Catie looked thoughtful, not defensive, which for her was already something new.
Lucy Lutheran: So. You have been quiet since church, Catie. What's up?
Catie Category: I can't stop thinking about something Pastor said today.
Lucy: When he called the Law, 'God's character, instead of God's will? I noticed that you almost dropped your Hymnal.
Catie: Yeah. Ya know...I've always kinda dismissed the third use of the Law. The Law being "a guide" always sounded like, 'Here's the Gospel... now here's the fine print.
Lucy: [laughs] I know. We went through Confirmation together, remember?
Catie: I've always been afraid that once you tell Christians the Law guides their lives, you end up sneaking works back into justification. Even if you do not mean to.
Lucy: That is a legitimate fear, our consciences are sensitive for a reason.
Catie: But when he said, "the Law reflects God's character..." Well...that felt different.
Less like a rulebook, and more like... a window.
Lucy: [leaning forward] Like a window into who God is?
Catie: Exactly. He said, 'The commandments show us what love looks like because they show us what God is like. And suddenly, it did not sound like pressure. It sounded... relational.
Lucy: That is actually how I have always understood the third use. I always wondered why you scoffed like you did.
Catie: [raises an eyebrow] You, defender of the third use?
Lucy: Guilty as charged! [laughs] but think about it, Catie. We say that the Law is God's
will, and that is true. But if we stop there, it can sound external or detached, like cosmic legislation arbitrarily being dropped from the sky or something. But when we say that
the Law reflects God's character, we are saying something deeper. "You shall not lie'
because God is truth. You shall not murder' because God is life and gives life. 'You-shall not commit adultery' because God is faithful, right?
Catie: [sits back] So obedience is not performing for God. It is being shaped into His likeness...
Lucy: Exactly!
Catie: But here is where I struggle. Doesn't the Law always accuse? Even for Chris-3 tians?
3
Lucy: [answering carefully] It does, yes, the old Adam never stops needing to be drowned. The second use (the mirror) never disappears. But the regenerate heart, the
new creation in Christ delights in God's Law. Psalm 119 is not written by a legalist, ya know.
Catie: [winked] You're quoting the Psalms at coffee now, Lucy...do you ever turn it off"? cont. pg. 2)
Lucy: You started it! [They both laughed] You see, the third use does not mean that the Law stops accusing us. It means that for the Christian, the Law is no longer only a courtroom sentence. It is also...more like a family resemblance.
Catie: [Looks into her cup for minute] When the Pastor said, "The Law shows us the shape of God's love,' something in me relaxed. It didn't feel like striving. It felt like... belonging.
Lucy: That's because justification is already settled. Christ's righteousness is yours. Period. The Law can't improve that. But because you're already united and belong to Him, His character starts to shape your life. You know all this already, Catie.
Catie. I guess I never thought about it. So, sanctification isn't climbing back up Sinai with Holy Spirit hiking boots...it's just walking with Christ?
Lucy: [chuckles] You are such a weirdo, but yes. And He's not leading you somewhere contrary to His Fa-ther's heart. The commandments describe and flow out of that heart.
Catie: Wow, I have always framed the third use as being dangerous, like it inevitably leads to moralism.
Lucy: It can if it is separated from the Gospel. But that is true about any doctrine. The abuse does not negate the proper use.
Catie: So, you are saying that I do not have to choose between protecting the Gospel and embracing the Law as guidance.
Lucy: Not if the foundation is firmly the Gospel. Seeing the Law as God's character does not threaten grace, it reveals what grace is conforming you to.
Catie: You know, when he said, 'The Spirit isn't writing anything new, He's just continually writing the char-acter of God onto your heart, I felt... hope...not pressure.
Lucy: And there it is! That is the Spirit's work! The third use is not about fear. It is about freedom to reflect the one who has already claimed you... [Lucy adds, with a laugh] only poorly!
Catie: [sighs loudly] Maybe I have been fighting the wrong enemy.
Lucy: Maybe you have just been guarding the Gospel. And I suppose that is honorable. But maybe now you can see that the Law, rightly understood, is not competing with the Gospel. It just describes the life that the Gospel creates, as well as the source of our life and the author of the Gospel.
Catie: [lifts her cup.] To God's character.
Lucy: [clinks her cup to Catie's] Amen! I think keeping this close to heart will make this Easter season even more special than ever.